free the source...

[Stephen Hart]

While only a small thing, gating an echo to a UseNet newsgroup is by
definition thinking beyond FidoNet.

S> but it's only for the benefit of the members of a dying network.

I mainly thought of it as benefiting those who had already left, but
who wanted to keep in touch.

Promoting this newsgroup

S> well, that's certainly a step forward, the phrase used to be
S> 'promoting fidonet' and that went through it's rounds in
S> net249/sysop249...

I personally think that the newsgroup will be more beneficial in the
long run, but I did also think that gating might help promote FidoNet.
I used to mention both ideas, but it was "politic" to emphasize the
possible benefit to FidoNet. That assumed that FidoNet could benefit
or be helped, but hey, there were already plenty of voices going on
and on about how FidoNet was dying...:-)

I'll not argue the overall trend, but I do still think that FidoNet
has something unique to offer. The big question is whether or not
too many people still want what FidoNet or BBSes can offer, but I've a
suspicion that FidoNet may last longer than many people expect. This
might be a result of the perverse stubbornness of BBS sysops, or a
result of FidoNet devolving back into a network mainly serving it's
system operators and point node operators...

S> (as a way for former FidoNet BBS sysops and

BBS users to keep in touch) is also thinking beyond FidoNet.

S> some of us DO keep in tough...we use that new fangled email thing.

Ah, but the joy of a newsgroup is that a newsgroup does not rely on a
small number of distribution points. I know that newsgroup
distribution is becoming more centralized, but a newsgroup is still
more likely to survive than a mailing list. For example, there was
some sort of Net249 e-mail mailing list for a while, but no longer.

Being fair, I will admit that many people are familiar with e-mail but
have never even heard of UseNet newsgroups. Still, anyone who was
competent enough to either run or use a BBS is certainly competent
enough to set up a newsgroup reader.

:-) ...Everyone enjoys FidoNet in their own way.

S> but MOST people enjoy it by fighting :)

Actually they were very much a minority, tho a loud minority, but that
has probably changed now. What with my pretty much ignoring the admin
message areas for the last few years, I can't even guess what the
ratio is now.

I do
not see anyone I think would be a litigious idiot.

S> you're kidding right? i don't have the list in front of me, but i
S> think there are at LEAST 3 or 4 names on their that have had fidonet
S> dealings in court before...or at least with some branch of
S> authority...

Other than one person very <cough> close to you, most of those people
have already settled their CRP accounts. :-)

FWIW, there was one actual lawyer listed in the final finance report,
and I guess he might deserve an extra bit of contact effort. Still,
last time I checked, he was still practicing in Kingston and should be
relatively easy to contact.

who would hire a lawyer to recover ten dollars that had been left
unclaimed for two or three or four years...

S> of course it's a principle thing...who would sue to be able to dial a
S> modem number? but that's the exact kind of thing that's happened in
S> the past and threats like that are STILL happening...

Good point, but I still do not think it applies to anyone who still
has money on account. Fortunately, I think we do have contact
information for anyone at all "doubtful" in that respect.

Also, when you realize that net249 has been easy enough to contact,

S> i've talked to several formater ex-net249 people (and ex-fidonet
S> people also) that didn't know net249 was still around. and had they
S> known, didn't know who to contact to actually get a phone number to
S> dial (both locally and in general)

If one looks, I'm pretty sure that starting at www.fidonet.org or at
www.fidonet.ca would eventually get you to a web site where you could
either get a nodelist or a link to Net249. It's been a while since I
did a web search for the BBS List, but it also has been posted fairly
regularly in various newsgroups...

over those same two or three or four years, I can't see many lawyers
thinking that this situation would make any sort of winning case.

S> i take it you don't know many lawyers. MY lawyer could make a case...

There's a big difference between "making a case" that would generate
billable hours for the lawyer and actually having a winning case.

...I know, I know. If this was a "matter of principle", then
someone might define "winning" as "causing a lot of grief, irritation
and making the opponent spend money on their own lawyers". Still,
aside from what a lawyer might tell a perspective sucker, I've a
suspicion that a judge might think a court case over ten dollars was a
wee bit frivolous. I've this possibly naive impression that judges
don't take kindly to having their time wasted.

Didn't he just threaten to sue and then have the FidoGhods cave-in

S> you don't even half to go to court :)

That depends on how much common sense and intestinal fortitude your
potential opponent has on tap. ;-)

because it wasn't worth the possible hassle? Besides, this is a
different sort of situation. We would have happily returned any money
"on account" to anyone who asked for their refund. In fact, we did do
so...

S> and after it's spent that option goes away?

If we make sure we refund any of the larger amounts and we can
demonstrate that we made a reasonable effort in the "due diligence"
department, then I really do not think there will be a problem.
A certain amount of legal CYA effort makes sense, but after a certain
point we need to factor the small amounts of money involved and all
the years that have passed into the equation.


TTYL, ...Steve

-
Software: Good, Fast, or Cheap - Choose two out of three.

[tony summerfelt]

Post by Stephen Hart
I'll not argue the overall trend, but I do still think that FidoNet
has something unique to offer.

that's really the crux of it isn't it. fidonet doesn't really have
anything to offer anymore

fidonet used to offer the fighting :) now you can get it in
newsgroups, but usually not web msg boards or mailing lists, because
the owner/moderator has more control. even if you moderate a fidonet
echo you can't remove problem users, the problem user always seems to
have a friend or sympathizer higher up that prevents it...nobody is
removing a node or region because of a sysop refusing to cut a feed
(has that EVER happened where it stuck?)

fidonet used to be the place for information...now you need
information to actually find a fidonet node to post on <snrk>

fidonet used to be spam free, but ironically the 'integration' of
fidonet and internet has only given spammers a new place to spam.


fidonet used to offer a 'community' feel to the various echoes. that's
probably still the case where echoes still get traffic.

everynow and then i bring up fidonet in the various online places i
hang out...the general response is always along the lines of 'i didn't
think fidonet was still around'. my reply has always been 'fidonet is
still here, it was YOU that left' :)

most people left because the board they posted from closed it's doors.
THAT trend isn't changing...and those that did so to move to a telnet
based setup didn't leave a 'forwarding address'.

i'd be willing to hazard a guess that most people who actually use
telnet boards are doing so for the games they used to play (bre,
global war, etc.) those still posting to fidonet boards are sysops
posting from their own system...

'course this is just all a fancy way of saying it:

fidonet is dead.

to paraphrase the eagles: 'we stab it with our steely [internet]
knives, but we just can't kill the beast'